2022 CCD shocks ride like crap?

[Lurch96]

@Snakebitten

Sorry in advance for the basic question, but I got Forscan up and running and have a question about which values I'm changing. For example, 721-30-01 for me shows 02EE 02EE 023B. I get that I'm changing 02EE to 0384 in the first two sets, but what about the last set of 4 numbers?

Your example has **--. I know the dashes are checksum values that we don't change, but how are we inputting a 4 digit hex code into a 2 digit slot? Thanks!

Edit: My question was answered here: https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/thr...he-ride-firm-in-normal-mode.18757/post-499474

Sponsored

 

[DBL R]

You are welcome. I work with hexadecimal and binary all the time.

Thank you for posting this. I will let you know of any differences between yours and mine.

The last thing I did was to return all value to the as built values and REDUCE the wheel rate by 30 percent. That 30 percent change should have produced a ~15 percent change in the frequency making the ride every softer. I wanted to make it softer because the previously values supposedly made the ride firmer, so I wanted to see if I could detect a difference. I think because I'm waiting at least one day between changes, I'm not really able to detect much difference.

I think what I will do save a soft setting, save a firm setting, and drive to an area nearby where the pavement transitions to a dirt road. I'll drive with the soft setting then immediately drive with the firm setting and see if I can detect a difference. If I can detect a difference, then I can try some adjustments.

I did install RAS this morning, so I'm anxious to see what difference that makes.

How are you viewing the data like you showed above and what I copied below?

After reading your posts again, I do think we are looking for similar results in terms of a "less sloppy" ride. I generally like the ride in "normal" mode, but I would like to reduce the bouncing around the rear-end does when going over something like a railroad track.

I made the changes to reduce the "wheel wheel and tire mass" as I previously mentioned and the change was barely noticeable, but I don't think it was for the better. Since those didn't seem to improve things, I removed those changes and replicated what you did. I do think it firmed up the ride somewhat. I am next going to try returning the front to the default value, leaving the rear at the values you use, and adjusting the front wheel rate.

I think you provided a link regarding wheel rate and it provides the following information:



Increasing the wheel rate will increase the ride frequency, which should make the ride firmer. As you mentioned, there is no rear wheel rate, so I will ignore that fact for now. I think I'll start with a 20 percent increase.

Any updates? I’ve been tinkering with the values for a few months now. Finally found a suspension setting that doesn’t feel like the suspension is slopping around after bumps, the only issue is that the settings I have made sport mode feel planted, normal is still too soft. I’ve had issues with getting normal mode to feel stable without being jarring when first hitting a bump.

 

[hpwjr]

Since you all dove so deeply into this, perhaps you can answer my question: I am exchanging my stock Perelli Scorpions for Goodrich KO2s. I’ll be towing a 7000 lbs travel trailer a lot. I was surprised how much more the Goodriches weight than OEM—20 lbs per tire. What effect will that have on the way the CCD is programmed? Any way it can be adjusted if it has a negative effect? I have a 2023 Powerboost, Max Tow, 145” wheel base Lariat 502a.

 

[Snakebitten]

Any updates? I’ve been tinkering with the values for a few months now. Finally found a suspension setting that doesn’t feel like the suspension is slopping around after bumps, the only issue is that the settings I have made sport mode feel planted, normal is still too soft. I’ve had issues with getting normal mode to feel stable without being jarring when first hitting a bump.

I too am interested in an update from @PatchManager

But I'm just as interested to hear exactly what all your settings (VDM) are and any mechanical modifications you have done.

Since you all dove so deeply into this, perhaps you can answer my question: I am exchanging my stock Perelli Scorpions for Goodrich KO2s. I’ll be towing a 7000 lbs travel trailer a lot. I was surprised how much more the Goodriches weight than OEM—20 lbs per tire. What effect will that have on the way the CCD is programmed? Any way it can be adjusted if it has a negative effect? I have a 2023 Powerboost, Max Tow, 145” wheel base Lariat 502a.

I can only guess, but I would expect the heavier mass of the tires will have a similar effect on a CCD truck as it would on an analog damped truck. Although without knowing Ford's CCD active damping algorithm, there's just no way to know how it responds to the forces of that heavier tire exactly.

It would be cool if CCD responded to the expected increase in compression rate (from added wheel/tire mass) by immediately increasing resistance (damping) to that compression. Afterall, that's the kind of behavior that "Active Suspension" promises. I just don't know if the CCD flavor of Active Suspension is really that sophisticated. I kind of get the feeling it is just an adjustable damper with a few different "presets" (married to the Driver Select Modes) and not a lot of noticeable actual real-time damping altering. But I could be wrong. There's certainly plenty of metrics being measured (VDM) to support a fairly sophisticated active damping platform, but I just don't know if Ford is leveraging much of the data, nor if the relatively inexpensive shocks themselves are capable of being that responsive?

I'm not complaining!
I think CCD is an outright bargain. Especially as a factory option co$t.
And it absolutely is an adjustable damping system with a fairly decent range. (softest<>firmest)
It's just that Ford doesn't let the owner have much control over that range, short of choosing THEIR pre-determined combinations of throttle-ramp/shift-strategy/damping

 

[DBL R]

I too am interested in an update from @PatchManager

But I'm just as interested to hear exactly what all your settings (VDM) are and any mechanical modifications you have done.

I’ve also had difficulty with finding how the CCD responds to these input changes. The response seems slow/minimal with changing the weights between the front and rear axels, certainly not the night and day difference their suspension algorithm produces between normal and sport mode. My current values are 825 for the front, 700 for the rear, and 3393 for the wheel rate. Changing the front does noticeably stiffen the suspension’s response over speed bumps. Changing the wheel rate effectively felt like a sway bar was installed, less side to side movement when going over uneven surfaces and a little less body roll in corners. These setting are still too soft for my liking in normal but work well for sport. I’m probably going to try dialing up the rear weight some more so find a better ride in normal.

Before my most recent testing I went to a parking lot, made sure the truck was level, and reset the ride height. I had a up to a 20mm difference between front to back and side to side, most likely from the change in rear suspension architecture due to my airbags. I’m currently running the ioniq system by Readyair which reduces the total suspension travel of the rear by 1-1.5 inches but certainly allows better articulation compared to the airlift options. Because of the air system sits between the leaf springs and frame, I’m sure my numbers will differ from those with a more stock suspension setup.

If only ford let us have individual drive modes so we could choose sport suspension and normal everything else to keep electric driving available, but these changes have at least made the CCD livable for me.

 

[Snakebitten]

My current values are 825 for the front, 700 for the rear, and 3393 for the wheel rate.

Do you mean 825Kg & 700Kg?
And I'm not sure I understand 3393 for wheel rate. Wasn't the factory settings 30M/mm? (171lbs per inch)

I admit that I find the values confusing for what the sheet describes as "unsprung mass" vs "wheel and tire mass". I would have thought wheel and tire mass would have been a much lower value than 525Kg

If only ford let us have individual drive modes so we could choose sport suspension and normal everything else to keep electric driving available, but these changes have at least made the CCD livable for me.

You and me both!

I really appreciate the work you have done and sharing it with us.

 

[DBL R]

Do you mean 825Kg & 700Kg?
And I'm not sure I understand 3393 for wheel rate. Wasn't the factory settings 30M/mm? (171lbs per inch)

I admit that I find the values confusing for what the sheet describes as "unsprung mass" vs "wheel and tire mass". I would have thought wheel and tire mass would have been a much lower value than 525Kg




You and me both!

I really appreciate the work you have done and sharing it with us.

You’re right I gave you two different units of measurement without realizing. The front and rear are in fact 850kg and 700kg respectively. The code for my wheel rate is “3090” from the factory. Each incremental increase ups the value by 100 with a repeat of that hundredths place at the single digit. So for one step up on wheel rate it changes the code to 3191. I’m three steps up from the 3090 stock setting so 3393. Hopefully that helps to clarify things.

 

[Snakebitten]

You’re right I gave you two different units of measurement without realizing. The front and rear are in fact 850kg and 700kg respectively. The code for my wheel rate is “3090” from the factory. Each incremental increase ups the value by 100 with a repeat of that hundredths place at the single digit. So for one step up on wheel rate it changes the code to 3191. I’m three steps up from the 3090 stock setting so 3393. Hopefully that helps to clarify things.

I shouldn't be so lazy and instead go test for myself, but aren't you being fairly conservative with 850/700?

Im at 900kg front/rear, and I felt that I was being conservative. (that's a 20% increase over oem Asbuilt. Although I agree with you that it's odd that Ford used the same values for what the Forscan gurus labeled front/rear "unsprung mass"

I think if I can't influence anyone else to do my dirtywork ? that I should at least TRY stepping on the scales big time, and see what happens.

Similar to unplugging one of shocks and experiencing exactly what MAX-damping feels like, try to do the same but with Asbuilt programming?

Like you, I just want the CCD damping of Sport mode, but while in Normal mode. It's either possible or it's not. It's not like I would be damaging anything.

 

[DBL R]

I shouldn't be so lazy and instead go test for myself, but aren't you being fairly conservative with 850/700?

Im at 900kg front/rear, and I felt that I was being conservative. (that's a 20% increase over oem Asbuilt. Although I agree with you that it's odd that Ford used the same values for what the Forscan gurus labeled front/rear "unsprung mass"

I think if I can't influence anyone else to do my dirtywork ? that I should at least TRY stepping on the scales big time, and see what happens.

Similar to unplugging one of shocks and experiencing exactly what MAX-damping feels like, try to do the same but with Asbuilt programming?

Like you, I just want the CCD damping of Sport mode, but while in Normal mode. It's either possible or it's not. It's not like I would be damaging anything.

Yeah currently the weight ratings I have seem low but that’s because I’ve been playing with the wheel rate to understand how these numbers play together. I’ve been testing ranges from stock to a little over 1400kg front and rear for the weight settings. When I get to where the suspension is too jarring or the rear end skips over bumps I drop the weight rating and increase the wheel rate to help figure out how these lines of code change the character/response of the suspension. I am no suspension guru, but with my tinkering it seems that the weight setting controls how the suspension responds to the initial hit of a bump and the wheel rate controls how quickly the suspension returns back to a “neutral position” or static position. Wheel weight too high and wheel rate too low and the suspension punches you in the kidneys then feels unsteady as it bounces around to get back to the “neutral position” or static position. Wheel weight too low and wheel rate too high and the suspension feels squishy but attempts to return to static position a little too quickly which contributes to instability in the rear end. The wheel rate seems to act as a multiplier for how quickly the suspension responds after the initial hit. The 3393 setting for wheel rate seems to be a sweet spot for the ride frequency. I tried up to 3595 and it was too tight for my liking. I imagine the 850kg front will stay (for me) but I’m still in the process of slowly bumping up the rear weight rating to find some response close to sport settings. Basically every trip to and from work I change the suspension settings to attempt a direct comparison with the previous settings. It’s been a time consuming process. Maybe someone has the real world data to help objectively compare and help with insight, everything I have is based off the feeling from my drivers seat.

 

[PatchManager]

Any updates? I’ve been tinkering with the values for a few months now. Finally found a suspension setting that doesn’t feel like the suspension is slopping around after bumps, the only issue is that the settings I have made sport mode feel planted, normal is still too soft. I’ve had issues with getting normal mode to feel stable without being jarring when first hitting a bump.

This is something I continue to experiment with, but my time has been limited. I generally change values, drive the truck for a while to see if I can "feel" any difference, and then change the values back to normal. As an engineer, I really don't like that the results of these changes are based on "feel". I have really only discovered two things. First, as I have mentioned before, I'm not good at sensing a change in the ride quality based on me sitting in the driver's seat. Consequently, I tend to think that I'm mainly wasting my time without a better way of measure the effect of parameter changes. That is why I will be using the vibration sensor noted below in the future in addition to the seat-of-my-pants measurement.

Vibration sensor

I do think I can detect a difference between the parameter values that @Snakebitten uses and the values that I am currently using. In what I think he would describe as feeling better planted, I tend to describe as harsher. Even though I do want to be just like @Snakebitten, I'm OK with differing in this small way.

The second thing that seems obvious is that all of the default VDM settings do not make sense or the labels we have are incorrect. For instance, the front wheel unsprung mass, suspension parasitic offset load, and wheel and tire mass are all the same value. From Wikipedia, the "unsprung mass (colloquially unsprung weight) of a vehicle is the mass of the suspension, wheels or tracks (as applicable), and other components directly connected to them. " And from machinedesign.com, "unsprung weight moves up and down with the wheels as they travel over bumps, potholes, and other obstructions. So unsprung weight includes the wheels, tires, brake assemblies, differential, solid drive axles, hub motors, and anything directly connected to the wheels is unsprung mass." This is obviously going to be significantly different than the "wheel and tire mass".

I never found a good definition for "suspension parasitic offset load", but the word "parasitic" would imply an unintended load or weight on the suspension. It doesn't make sense to me that a parasitic weight and the weight excluding the parasitic weight would be the same value. My thought is that some of these parameters are not used or the labels for the parameters are not correct.

If I'm missing something, I would be grateful for more information or corrections to my understanding.

It is also not intuitive why the default front wheel and tire mass is different than the default rear wheel tire and mass. If this is just describing the tire and wheel mass, they should be the same value since all of my wheels and tires are essentially the same.

I'm still adjusting values, but I do like the current values I have:

I will likely bump up the unsprung mass numbers a little (matching my truck's numbers), reduce the wheel and tire numbers, and then make adjustments only to the wheel rate for a while.

 

[Snakebitten]

I do think I can detect a difference between the parameter values that @Snakebitten uses and the values that I am currently using. In what I think he would describe as feeling better planted, I tend to describe as harsher. Even though I do want to be just like @Snakebitten, I'm OK with differing in this small way.

The second thing that seems obvious is that all of the default VDM settings do not make sense or the labels we have are incorrect.

First of all, although I snipped much of the quote from your post, what a great post! There's so much addressed in it. And I am so happy that someone burdened with the engineering curse is involved in this VDM experiment. (cuz I am NOT cursed in that evil way)

Looking forward to your measuring endeavor. (sensors) That will be super interesting! I had considered turning on logging and log some of the PIDs that are measuring ride height changes. The theory being that I could then compare logs over the same exact road surface at the same rate of speed and perhaps SEE any differences in the rate (time) and distance (height) that the shocks compress and rebound. So in effect, measuring the damping changes when making Asbuilt edits, in order to possibly relabel or redefine some of those Forscan descriptions.

As much as I appreciate the efforts the Forscan gurus have made to bless us with those labels and descriptions, like you I'm not so sure the English terms are completely accurate.

(On a side note: I'm NOT COMPLAINING!!! The fellas that have Mach-E GTPE, have "Magnaride" suspension. And they have a VDM module. And they have the various damping maps by Ford locked to each drivers mode. So they are in a similar situation as the CCD owner that wants to tweak, if possible. However, the Forscan mapping of the VDM doesn't exist. (yet?) So again, I'm not whining even the slightest about the vaguness of these VDM parameter labels)

And finally, @PatchManager
I almost did the proverbial coffee spray from my mouth when I literally laughed out loud. Got some spray on a server keyboard in a rack. ?

Flattering. Thank you. Kind words indeed. But I don't know if I would want to exchange the engineering curse for the baggage that would come with being anything like snake. Grass ain't always greener?

Seriously though. Thank you for contributing. You and @DBL R are awesome in my eyes.

 

[Snakebitten]

I have attached the portion of the service manual that discusses the CCD suspension, specifically the VDM. I'm not suggesting everyone would desire to read 100+ pages, but it will be a good reference for understanding more about the tactics I and others have taken in an effort to tweak the damping maps Ford hardcoded into our CCD equipped trucks.

I'm fixing to dive back in for a second round/attempt to improve my ride when in an empty truck. Since most of my miles these days are NOT with the truck heavy laden, everything I post is for daily light duty ride quality.

It's been many months since I edited my VDM and I honestly am still fairly satisfied with the ride. But others on the forum have gotten me re-interested in better understanding what we can or can't do to "dial it in" for personal preferences. Which brings up an important point. I'm not aiming at finding settings that others would or should use on their trucks. Suspension and ride are too subjective. And my truck might have a longer wheelbase and I have added RAS and a rear antisway bar. So there is likely a considerable apples/orange scenario to begin with.
Rather my intentions are to discover if there are edits to the Asbuilt VDM module that are beyond what I have already tried. And more importantly, is there a way to measure the impact of those changes, so that the placebo effect can be diminished as much as possible.

After reading through the documentation thoroughly, I think it's possible to monitor some corresponding PIDs to see the evidence, and possibly even quantify the PID values with the Asbuilt edits?

If so, that would be cool!

 

[Snakebitten]

Just to wet someone's appetite, here are a few pertinent screenshots

This is a basic summary of how the system is designed to work:

I highlighted the fundamental fact that if there is a fault, the CCD system is deactivated. Literally disabled. And on this particular system that leaves the four shocks in maximum damping. The firmest setting possible. (it also disables DriverSelectMode. So the truck will be in default "Normal" mode, based on the IPC graphics and the shifting strategy of the 10r80. As well as the EV mode on the Powerboost)


Also note that each individual damper is controlled individually, rather than in pairs. So theoretically the left front valve solenoid could be sent a different voltage/amperage than the right front simultaneously. It will be interesting to see if we can monitor and verifiably witness that happening

If you look at the Forscan spreadsheet for the VDM module, you will note that the module contains values for minumum and maximum allowed voltage at each solenoid.
And they are very low (millivolt) range of volts.
Interesting there are DTCs that will be thrown if the voltage reading at a solenoid is above 1.9A for a given amount of time.

The troubleshooting pinpoint test for the DTC includes instructions for monitoring a PID for each solenoid.

Anyways, can you see where I'm going with this?
Is it possible to log some PIDs on a repeatable stretch of road at a repeatable pace for a set length of time.
Switch between Driver Select Mode and log it again.
Compare.

Then make edits to the VDM Asbuilt values, repeat the road/speed/length and compare again.

Would it be possible to at least see and verify the impact on the damper solenoid volt/current? Can Asbuilt edits result in a customized "Normal Mode" log matching closely to the OEM "Sport Mode" logs?

By the way, before I decided to look into this exercise again, I took my own suggestion and unplugged one of the front shocks. And sure enough, just as the service manual suggested, it threw the fault and disabled CCD. For the first mile or so I told myself that I should just be happy with this maximum damping and forget about trying to dial it in. It felt pretty dang good going down my rather bumpy approach road.
But I left it unplugged for a couple of days. 2 complete round trip commutes. About 100 miles.

Nope. I couldn't live with it. It's too much. It reminds me way too much of a truck with substantial more Payload, but running empty. It's tiring after a while. And likely to introduce some rattles that are avoidable, to be honest.
But the good news is the CCD dampers definitely have that much range in them. That's a good thing. Especially if the truck is carrying substantial cargo.

 

[bmwfrk]

@Snakebitten , @DBL R , @PatchManager

Have you done any further testing or settled on "best settings"? I recently purchased a 2023 Limited and have the same issue with a total lack of dampening in anything but sport mode. I find Normal mode to be quite dangerous at high way speeds. For example on concrete flyovers taken at speed, the truck begins to roll and toss from corner to corner as you hit the joints, and feels as if it wants to roll over in Normal mode. In Sport it doesn't do this at all.

I've ordered a sway bar and I'm considering RAS after catching up on these threads.

I am curious about your findings on the WheelRate. I do want to stiffen up the overall behavior, but the thing that bothers me the most is all of the "reverb" that happens in the rear when you hit a bump/pothole etc., especially in the rear end. It happens in Normal but is also detectible in Sport.

Is it possible to adjust wheelrate in a way that allows a soft initial absorption like in normal mode, but then quickly plants the wheel without vibrating up and down searching for 'home'.

Has anyone determined if the Wheelrate setting affects the rear at all?

 

[Snakebitten]

It's been some time since I addressed the shortcomings of the CCD damping on my truck. It's coming up on 3 years, in fact.

With that much time and the ability to look back, I think my advice today is don't put the Asbuilt tasks as the priority.

I would absolutely install the rear Antisway first. It's such an influence on the overall dynamics of the chassis. Admittedly it doesn't increase the damping in the rear of the truck, but it substantially reins in some of the negatives of the underdamping.

Drive the truck a few days/weeks afterwards and then try the Forscan edits. The longer you wait to try them, the more accurate your judgment will be about the results.

Throwing a rear Antisway, RAS, and the Forscan edits back to back quickly, can possibly cloud what modification is doing what. And honestly, there's considerable overlap.

As for the exact changes I made personally? All I can say is that I'm satisfied enough that I enjoy the truck and nothing really irritates me. Except the fact that EVERYTHING about the drivability of my truck in Sport Mode is better. The reason that's an irritation is that I can't have my cake and eat it too. ?

It shifts better
It rides better
It just feeeeels better
The ICE PIDs are happier too. Which is my way of saying the internal combustion engine is happiest.

But it's a Hybrid for crying out loud.
Ford won't let it be a Hybrid in Sport Mode. Argghhhhhh ?

Sponsored