ProPower OnBoard 7.2kW Continuous Full Output in Motion

[turbopilot]

I’m working on a new project that might require continuous full output of the PPoB 7.2 kW inverter while the PowerBoost is moving down the road at highway speeds. My personal experience and online reports suggest that PPoB consumes between 0.8 and 1 gallon per hour when used to power various devices while the PowerBoost is stationary. In these applications, the ICE cycles on and off to maintain the HV battery within the recommended range and meet the demand of the DC/AC Converter module, which outputs two legs of 110 volts to the PPoB panel. I understand that in the static mode, the ICE starts when it senses a lower SOC on the HV battery and engages the traction motor, transferring high-voltage power to the lithium battery. This process makes sense, and the fuel consumption for these static power needs is reasonable as the ICE cycles on and off.

However, I’m curious about how this all works when the PPoB is in motion. I’ve been towing an AirStream trailer for several years with my PPoB connected via an umbilical from the PPoB to a two-leg 30 amp connector. In this application, the PPoB has been able to supply the trailer’s power requirements, including running air conditioners and charging my 4.7 kWh lithium batteries, while I’m driving at 62 mph on the highway. Interestingly, I’ve never noticed a significant change in fuel consumption when using PPoB while the trailer is moving. This suggests that there’s no free lunch in thermodynamics. Generating that much electrical power must require some kind of energy input, but my miles per gallon seems not to vary when towing with PPoB compared to towing the trailer with little or no electrical energy demand on the 7.2 PPoB.

So, what’s happening here? While the ICE is moving, the traction motor, located between the engine and the transmission, must continuously turning. Using my PowerBoost OBDLink app, I can monitor the PB alternating between charging and discharging the HV battery. I can also see the current PPoB output. However, I haven’t found any PID that shows the HV power flow from the battery into the DC/AC module. My current focus is on determining how much excess gas is consumed to run PPoB at full output while the vehicle is moving.

Since the traction motor is continuously in motion as the PB moves down the road, alternating between the generator and electric motor modes, it would seem logical that gasoline consumption would be lower since the traction motor is already spinning compared to using PPoB in a static mode with the ICE cycling on and off. I’ve observed from watching the PowerBoost OBDLink app that, in certain situations, the traction motor ceases charging the lithium battery once the SOC reaches approximately 70%. This occurs when the traction motor is working in the braking regeneration mode. Consequently, there are instances when going down hills or braking regenerative electricity is lost to engine braking and friction brakes. This happens frequently when towing a heavy trailer.

Now, the question is, how much fuel consumption actually occurs while the vehicle is moving at 60+ mph with PPoB outputting 7.2 kW continuously? Has anyone attempted to measure this? This is a crucial factor to consider for my upcoming project, which I’ll describe in detail in the future.

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[Snakebitten]

It shouldn't come as a surprise that you are pioneering.
It's certainly not the first time.

Now get to work! ???

I guess I could throw the Mach-E on a trailer and plug the EVSE in and set it to 240/30Amps........ Charging the EV while in tow.
Then repeat some travel loop with the EVSE turned off?

Don't wait for me though. ?

 

[Eighthtry]

Might want to nickname your truck "The Mayflower". It's a new world.

 

[turbopilot]

It shouldn't come as a surprise that you are pioneering.
It's certainly not the first time.

Now get to work! ???

I guess I could throw the Mach-E on a trailer and plug the EVSE in and set it to 240/30Amps........ Charging the EV while in tow.
Then repeat some travel loop with the EVSE turned off?

Don't wait for me though. ?

I suspect all of the information needed to answer my question is floating around the CAN bus. Finding the PID's to tap into resolve the answer to the solution would be the challenge. But before that I am just trying to see if I understand how the pieces work with the dynamics at play.

Rolling down the road at 62 mph, as I understand the design, the traction motor between the engine and the transmission is rotating continuously. Whatever module that commands the state of the traction motor (generator or motor) makes a constant real time decision about traction motor state (generator, off, motor). So in theory (I am guessing here) when a module commands the traction motor to go into generator mode, there should be some change in the parameters of the ICE engine because energy is now being extracted for two reasons: power to the axle and electricity flowing to the lithium batteries. That state change in the ICE should be measurable by parameters like fuel flow, boost, torque and RPM.

So in theory it should be possible to measure the difference in ICE efficiency when generating electricity using the traction motor using existing data sources already measured. I just don't have a clue how to do it. The other trick would be how to switch on and off a 7.2 kW load moving down the road to do the tests.

 

[powerboatr]

Dude...or should I say
Pioneer x2
My simple question...do a run with camper at 62mph...unplugged
Then same loop with all the juice ,ac on 60, f high fan, max amps.
Just from a towing stand point

...towing already took a bat to mpg,
So maybe the hit covers the small losses to being plugged in
I don't have a pb
But for argument..my 40 foot bus has 8kw genny
If it's running both acunits set to 60f,
It damages fuel consumption, less than .5 gallon per mile..
I get a staggering 7.5 mpg at 65.
Empty, or loaded or towing the hauler trailer.
Genny running cycling loads..
Wait for it.....7. To 7.5 mpg
Pretty sure all the other factors at 65
Override any loose of fuel from using genny

I could see data logging actual fuel flow at injectors....you need a configuration pilot set a laptop imo

 

[sporkfed]

TFL charged an EV while towing it:

 

[Cobraman428]

 

[Gros Ventre]

You're towing and running the PPOB. I've used it on the road to make coffee, which draws about 1.5kW. I believe you don't see the difference because it is masked. If you're towing your MPG is likely around 15. That will be 5 or 6 g per hundred miles. Toss in something like 1/2 to 1 gph and it will be a small decrement in mpg. In my family Suburban that I ran for 30 years I ran some experiements over the years and miles. For example, did any brand of spark plugs give better mileage or did E-10 reduce MPG. These were all smaller effects and I never could ID anything significant across many, many miles covered and gallons consumed. So I suspect the issue is simply the effect is small enough to be buried in the details.

 

[turbopilot]

TFL charged an EV while towing it:

Good video. And close to the point of my new project. In the video they compared mpg on a round trip in the PB. Not a good comparison for electric generation efficiency because the car was on the trailer for the return trip. But a good start for analysis.

My project is a little different. I just ordered the LightShip AE.1 EV powered RV. I am going to tow it with my PowerBoost with an umbilical between PPoB and the LightShip. The AE.1 has a 77 kWh battery and is self powered with a power train much like a Tesla Model 3. The AE.1 is rated to self power behind the TV for 300 miles without charging. So I am now trying to determine the self powered range with the PowerBoost charging the AE.1 battery on the move. Many moving parts to this analysis. Knowing the relative efficiency of the PB to make electricity out of gas is one of the considerations, since ultimate towed range will be impacted by MPG to generate electricity from the PB.

Here is the TFL review just published for the LightShip.

 

[Snakebitten]

So the RV isn't vapor anymore?

That's so cool!

 

[turbopilot]

So the RV isn't vapor anymore?

That's so cool!

Vapor is gone. There are actually four conforming, production prototypes with customer serial production beginning in June. I have taken a deep dive into all the systems and will be posting my observations about the major systems. Just trying to figure out what forum would be the best place. This is a venture capital company started by former Tesla employees. They have 80 employees so far with other Tesla employees that have joined the company. This startup appears very well funded with $57 million in Series A and Series B venture capital.

There primary focus has been on EV pickups as the tow vehicles. I had a short discussion with the founders of the company and suggested they focus on the PowerBoost HEV with PPoB as the charging infrastructure for EV's towing trailers is just building out and will not be complete. Until I mentioned it to them it was not on their radar, but now it is.

I love this new tech.

 

[EricR]

Good video. And close to the point of my new project. In the video they compared mpg on a round trip in the PB. Not a good comparison for electric generation efficiency because the car was on the trailer for the return trip. But a good start for analysis.

My project is a little different. I just ordered the LightShip AE.1 EV powered RV. I am going to tow it with my PowerBoost with an umbilical between PPoB and the LightShip. The AE.1 has a 77 kWh battery and is self powered with a power train much like a Tesla Model 3. The AE.1 is rated to self power behind the TV for 300 miles without charging. So I am now trying to determine the self powered range with the PowerBoost charging the AE.1 battery on the move. Many moving parts to this analysis. Knowing the relative efficiency of the PB to make electricity out of gas is one of the considerations, since ultimate towed range will be impacted by MPG to generate electricity from the PB.

Here is the TFL review just published for the LightShip.

W A Y C O O L !!!

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