Next gen F150 100% American Made / Cost [LOCKED DUE TO POLITICS & INSULTING BEHAVIOR]

[endzone_truck]

Hi there,

Given future incentivizes for vehicles 100% made in USA with American parts, and that the F150 has an insane amount of Canadian and Mexican parts; how much do we think the cost of the new F150s will jump? How long will these it take for these price increases to be felt by the consumer?

The way I see it is:

1) Truck continues to be made as-is with mix of parts from US/CAN/MEX = Price goes up as those parts are tarriffed (my guess is somewhere around 15%)
2) Truck production is re-tooled, supply chains re-organized, parts sourced locally = Price goes up as labor costs domestically are higher (my guess is around 20%)
3) I think another impact would be to Ford for lost sales to Mexico and Canada - I mean who is going to import a truck that is 20% higher and further puts downward pressure on MEX/CAN currencies - let's say the loss of 15% of overall sales due to reduced economies of scale which impacts Ford's bottom line, and that would be passed on to the domestic consumer in the turn of a 3% charge.

That would mean that a generously specced Lariat F150 purchased could range from USD $85,000 - USD $95,000 depending on the state. In Canada it would mean that this would effectively be the start of CAD $130,000 - CAD $140,000 Lariat effectively killing sales for new Lariat F150 vehicles in Canada.

A possible solution is:

Will we see a reduction in features? A sort of "feature-shrinkflation" the way we did from the 2021's to the 2022's. The only example I have of this is the little screens in the climate knobs. A 4cyl F150?

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[Scotty M.]

Hi there,

Given future incentivizes for vehicles 100% made in USA with American parts, and that the F150 has an insane amount of Canadian and Mexican parts; how much do we think the cost of the new F150s will jump? How long will these it take for these price increases to be felt by the consumer?

The way I see it is:

1) Truck continues to be made as-is with mix of parts from US/CAN/MEX = Price goes up as those parts are tarriffed (my guess is somewhere around 15%)
2) Truck production is re-tooled, supply chains re-organized, parts sourced locally = Price goes up as labor costs domestically are higher (my guess is around 20%)
3) I think another impact would be to Ford for lost sales to Mexico and Canada - I mean who is going to import a truck that is 20% higher and further puts downward pressure on MEX/CAN currencies - let's say the loss of 15% of overall sales due to reduced economies of scale which impacts Ford's bottom line, and that would be passed on to the domestic consumer in the turn of a 3% charge.

That would mean that a generously specced Lariat F150 purchased could range from USD $85,000 - USD $95,000 depending on the state. In Canada it would mean that this would effectively be the start of CAD $130,000 - CAD $140,000 Lariat effectively killing sales for new Lariat F150 vehicles in Canada.

A possible solution is:

Will we see a reduction in features? A sort of "feature-shrinkflation" the way we did from the 2021's to the 2022's. The only example I have of this is the little screens in the climate knobs. A 4cyl F150?

Ford has had vehicle assembly plants and parts producing plants, in both the USA and Canada for over 70 years - from the old days of Ford being a 100% North American made product. Mexico was added to the North American production family around 30 plus years ago - again, back when Ford was 100% North American made.

Fast forward to today - and a high percentage of the components and parts Ford uses are made “off shore” - most often from countries in Asia. Try doing your "cost math" on these parts. The cost of an F150 would likely double, if it were to be assembled with parts and components that were manufactured in the USA.

The unionized uneducated assembly line workers at Ford assembly plants, and parts producing plants, make as much (or more) money annually, than many highly educated professional people will.

So what is the overriding cost of Ford’s manufacturing process - salaries.

This Forum is not supposed to be a place for political discussions - but I will say this: North American has had a “free trade” agreement for decades. One member deciding to arbitrarily impose tariffs would likely begin a trade war, where the other members would respond in kind - which would likely fuel inflation, and could potentially trigger a recession. Not a smart plan - but a simple one - that a child could have come up with.

 

[endzone_truck]

Ford has had vehicle assembly plants and parts producing plants, in both the USA and Canada for over 70 years - from the old days of Ford being a 100% North American made product. Mexico was added to the North American production family around 30 plus years ago - again, back when Ford was 100% North American made.

Fast forward to today - and a high percentage of the components and parts Ford uses are made “off shore” - most often from countries in Asia. Try doing your "cost math" on these parts. The cost of an F150 would likely double, if it were to be assembled with parts and components that were manufactured in the USA.

The unionized uneducated assembly line workers at Ford assembly plants, and parts producing plants, make as much (or more) money annually, than many highly educated professional people will.

So what is the overriding cost of Ford’s manufacturing process - salaries.

This Forum is not supposed to be a place for political discussions - but I will say this: North American has had a “free trade” agreement for decades. One member deciding to arbitrarily impose tariffs would likely begin a trade war, where the other members would respond in kind - which would likely fuel inflation, and could potentially trigger a recession. Not a smart plan - but a simple one - that a child could have come up with.

Politics aside...

A fully loaded Lariat is CAD $100K already... So CAD $140,000 isn't out of the question. I guess I will have to be happy with my 2.7 Ecoboost for a long time (which I have no problem with!)

 

[Polo08816]

The price will likely increase but there are ways to counteract that. The Fed raise the Fed funds rate significantly to fight inflation. Of course that means higher unemployment but lower prices are what the American people wanted...

 

[JExpedition07]

Certain tariffs protect vulnerable domestic industry (steel, automotive, aerospace, lumber) which is a net positive for domestic companies whether consumers pay more in the short term or not. It’s like thwarting invasive species, net positive. You are paying more for American labor and keeping profits here. Children are the ones who can’t handle some short term pain to protect domestic industry because they can’t see passed 5 years out.

We failed to adequately protect our steel industry and lost thousands of jobs and there are no longer any domestic steel producers. This is a huge risk.

 

[endzone_truck]

Certain tariffs protect vulnerable domestic industry (steel, automotive, aerospace, lumber) which is a net positive for domestic companies whether consumers pay more in the short term or not. It’s like thwarting invasive species, net positive. You are paying more for American labor and keeping profits here. Children are the ones who can’t handle some short term pain to protect domestic industry because they can’t see passed 5 years out.

We failed to adequately protect our steel industry and lost thousands of jobs and there are no longer any domestic steel producers. This is a huge risk.

It’s an interesting point but this also eliminates two export markets. Canada and Mexico. And makes a costly exit for Ford from both markets.

Eliminating Canada as a market is eliminating 125,000 of the 700,000 units sold across Canada and US. Not to mention the domestic drop in units sold due to the cost of American parts / labor.

Nobody in Canada would pay CAD $140,000++ for a Lariat when Toyota will 100% step in and retool one of the dozens of plants they have.

Just wondering how Ford explains this to shareholders. Or is the planned outcome for Tesla to fill the gap in the market with a 100% American sourced F150 replacement.

 

[Hullguy]

Ford has had vehicle assembly plants and parts producing plants, in both the USA and Canada for over 70 years - from the old days of Ford being a 100% North American made product. Mexico was added to the North American production family around 30 plus years ago - again, back when Ford was 100% North American made.

Fast forward to today - and a high percentage of the components and parts Ford uses are made “off shore” - most often from countries in Asia. Try doing your "cost math" on these parts. The cost of an F150 would likely double, if it were to be assembled with parts and components that were manufactured in the USA.

The unionized uneducated assembly line workers at Ford assembly plants, and parts producing plants, make as much (or more) money annually, than many highly educated professional people will.

So what is the overriding cost of Ford’s manufacturing process - salaries.

This Forum is not supposed to be a place for political discussions - but I will say this: North American has had a “free trade” agreement for decades. One member deciding to arbitrarily impose tariffs would likely begin a trade war, where the other members would respond in kind - which would likely fuel inflation, and could potentially trigger a recession. Not a smart plan - but a simple one - that a child could have come up with.

If education were a bell weather for earnings potential, my daughter with her Masters degree, and other specialized education certificates would be making substantially more than she is.

 

[Polo08816]

If education were a bell weather for earnings potential, my daughter with her Masters degree, and other specialized education certificates would be making substantially more than she is.

It depends on what someone gets their degree in.

One perspective is that educational loans should have an interest rate that reflects what the market expects the risk/ROI to be on that specific degree. I would imagine an educational loan for electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, computer engineering, computer science, etc. would have a lower interest rate than sociology.

 

[endzone_truck]

If education were a bell weather for earnings potential, my daughter with her Masters degree, and other specialized education certificates would be making substantially more than she is.

…And I wouldn’t be worried about the future cost of a pickup truck ?

 

[Scotty M.]

If education were a bell weather for earnings potential, my daughter with her Masters degree, and other specialized education certificates would be making substantially more than she is.

The point that you are sidestepping - is that unionized labor and strike action - has gotten to the point of the “tail wagging the dog”. How is it reasonable (or logical) that someone with a Grade 10 education, operating a forklift at a dock unloading container ships - takes home more money annually than an engineer, nurse, dentist, chiropractor, therapist, etc.

The level of remuneration (wages) being paid to blue collar workers has gotten ridiculous - and has driven up the cost of everything.

 

[Hullguy]

It depends on what someone gets their degree in.

One perspective is that educational loans should have an interest rate that reflects what the market expects the risk/ROI to be on that specific degree. I would imagine an educational loan for electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, computer engineering, computer science, etc. would have a lower interest rate than sociology.

I’m more bringing to light a generalization that doesn’t hold water. I’m not really in this group for politics or complaints about society

 

[endzone_truck]

The point that you are sidestepping - is that unionized labor and strike action - has gotten to the point of the “tail wagging the dog”. How is it reasonable (or logical) that someone with a Grade 10 education, operating a forklift at a dock unloading container ships - takes home more money annually than an engineer, nurse, dentist, chiropractor, therapist, etc.

The level of remuneration (wages) being paid to blue collar workers has gotten ridiculous - and has driven up the cost of everything.

so anyways - anyone else in Canada expecting a 4-cyl f150 in the future because of all this?

 

[Hullguy]

The point that you are sidestepping - is that unionized labor and strike action - has gotten to the point of the “tail wagging the dog”. How is it reasonable (or logical) that someone with a Grade 10 education, operating a forklift at a dock unloading container ships - takes home more money annually than an engineer, nurse, dentist, chiropractor, therapist, etc.

The level of remuneration (wages) being paid to blue collar workers has gotten ridiculous - and has driven up the cost of everything.

What you say doesn’t hold any water! If you think the Ford workers are over paid because of their union affiliation, then why aren’t the vehicles assembled in the USA not cheaper?

 

[endzone_truck]

What you say doesn’t hold any water! If you think the Ford workers are over paid because of their union affiliation, then why aren’t the vehicles assembled in the USA not cheaper?

I guess what I am trying to say is for all involved this is a losing situation.

Ford corporation - higher costs, reduced revenue
Ford Canadian customers - higher costs, less selection, some leaving the brand
Ford USA customers - higher costs
Ford USA employees - neutral, some layoffs due to reduced demand but many jobs brought back to America.
Ford Canada employees - lost jobs

 

[Scotty M.]

What you say doesn’t hold any water! If you think the Ford workers are over paid because of their union affiliation, then why aren’t the vehicles assembled in the USA not cheaper?

The point that you do not seem able to grasp, is that overpaid unionized labor is a significant cost in the current production model - that also uses quite a lot of components made offshore - at a lower cost.

If you start manufacturing ALL of the components used in the production of an F150, in North America, by unionized labor - then the cost of the previous used offshore components would increase dramatically - and hence the overall cost of the F150 would increase dramatically.

Does that hold water for you ? Or do I need to find a crayon and draw you a picture ?

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